Dialogue Between B.F. Skinner and Abraham Maslow

Dialogue Between B.F. Skinner and Abraham Maslow

Maslow: So, Skinner, what are your views on behavior modification, to start this dialogue?

Skinner: I think that operant conditioning has a lot to offer the world in terms of behavior modification. Behavior can be reduced to a simple analysis of stimuli and response. After all, human learning is simply a result of a person's response to a stimulus. In this sense, adhering to the principles of operant conditioning can easily attain behavior modification.

Maslow: Let's make sure that I've got this right, Skinner. You're arguing that mental illness can be treated through a simple application of your principles of operant conditioning. I have to disagree that operant conditioning in behavior modification can be so universally effective. It's important to note that your style of first force psychology has some important and effective uses, specifically in treating some specific behavioral problems. Even second force psychology, or psychoanalysis, has had some success. However, both approaches have serious limitations.

Skinner: So you're saying that you prefer your own approach. Let's see if I understand. Knowing you, you first object to operant conditioning as treatment on an ethical level. As a humanist psychologist, you believe in the inherent worth and value of human beings, and see reducing human behavior to stimuli and response as both degrading and overly simplistic.

Maslow: You have to understand that I have great respect for the work of behaviorist psychologists, but I see a different method for behavioral modification. In humanist psychology, a much broader range of treatment designed to treat the "whole person" has replaced behavior modification. Today, our focus includes psychosomatic, cognitive, spiritual, social approaches, in addition to the incorporation of occasional behavior modification techniques, but only if absolutely necessary. Ultimately, the idea of behavior modification is somewhat opposed to the principles of humanistic psychology.

B.F. Skinner's novel "Walden Two" demonstrates some of the principles of learning theory. In the novel, the principles of operant conditioning and behavior modification are used extensively to help to create a utopian society that is soundly based on scientific methodologies. In the novel, one of the main characters, Frazier, notes that society "already possesses the psychological techniques needed to obtain universal observance of a code... A code which would guarantee the success of a community or state." Thus, Skinner's influential Walden Two is simply an application of these scientific principles of operant conditioning to the governance of an entire society.

This "utopian" society within Skinner's Walden Two is created through the use of operant conditioning by the Board of Planners of the society, and specifically through the systematic incorporation of rewards for inhabitants of the society. For example inhabitants of Walden Two are rewarded for their labor by receiving labor credits. Less pleasant work receives more labor credits, thus increasing the reward for such work. For example, working in sewers has so many credits that only two hours of work a day is needed.

In the utopia of Walden Two, disagreement and non-productive behavior are treated as illnesses. As such, all behavior, both good and bad, is looked at in the context of Skinner's learning theory. Significantly, Castle describes poor work as a "form of illness."

In Walden Two, Skinner describes the use of operant conditioning in order to obtain human happiness. In this world, inhabitants regularly receive positive reinforcements for their behaviors.

Within Skinner's Walden Two, punishment is not used. This avoidance comes from Skinner's belief that the effects of punishment can often be unpredictable, including avoidance of the punisher through classical conditioning.

In Ram Dass' book, How Can I Help, Buddhist thought is clearly evident in the writings and examples that he gives for compassionate helping. The book tells the stories of individuals who have helped others and in doing so enriched their own lives. In How can I Help, Dass descriptively chronicles the lives of a nun, doctor, minister, housewife, and drug counselor among others.

Dass' book contains much of the Buddhist idea of Karma. Karma arises from the destiny that you create through your actions in this life, and earlier lives as well. As such, good actions create a positive Karma, while negative actions create bad Karma. In the book, Dass evocatively describes the lives of many individuals who devote their lives to the selfless service of others. In the most immediate sense, these people obtain positive Karma through the enrichment of their lives.